30 Dec 2008

Comment Spinoff: Men, Paying & Dating

I always have an opinion on something, and from some comments I receive and read on other blogs it sometimes spurs me on to want to go a little more in depth about a particular subject matter. I've decided to make this a little new blog feature, so don't worry you're not be called out or picked on or anything.

"Don't be cheap if YOU ask me out, why am I paying?" This was on one on my Confessions. Admissions. What's On A Diva's Mind blog last week. In the comments John Boy responded with "But men do all the asking out. Does that mean we should do all the paying out?"
Good Question!! Here is my general take on paying, dating and asking out in general.
We've all heard of the 'unwritten rule' and here are a few of them.
To go out as a woman with a man who has asked you out. He pays.
To go out as a woman with girlfriends. You pay.

In this instance I have paid/treated my friends. I make it a personal rule that if I venture out to the cinema on a family outing or dinner my parents NEVER pay, and I always do the asking. If we go out on a girly outing, we pick a date which works for us all financially as we don't assume everybody has money for extras at that particular time in the month. If you ask a woman out you have the means, and she's expecting you have the means because before you approached her. Dinner was not in her diary as an extra expenditure and it's obviously in yours to be asking. Don't ask a sista out if you're broke and expect her to pay half or in full when you decided you wanted to wine and dine a sista, as this makes it seem like all you have in mind is the hope of a 69 thing going on, and that the wine and dine part is not all that important to you.
Let's be real now, I have been in relationships and I have paid when I HAVE SUGGESTED OR ASKED MY MAN AT THE TIME if he fancies eating out/going somewhere tonight. For me to say "Baby let's go to so and so" then sit there at the end of the meal expecting him to dig around in his pockets and pay is a no no. If you don't want to pay then please DO NOT ASK. It's as simple as that. To do so implies that you are aware of that other's persons financial situation. They maybe a little short this month or can't afford your new found taste for eating in restaurants in luxury hotels. The thought to do this screams nothing more than disrespectful and rude.

Men do a majority but NOT ALL of the asking out. There are some women bold enough to step to a brotha she likes and do the first date lead talking. It's rare but it happens. If sista girl asks brotha man out and he accepts, then by all means...sista you better whip out that Visa card. It's not my thing to ask a man out, but hey do you!

Let me ask you something? How in the hell are you going to step to me, exchange numbers, ask me out, pick a spot then pay for all of the things you ate and expect me to pay for the rest? There will be no date #2 after that. No sir! You're not out to impress. There is no woo factor. It's very un-gentleman like.

Here's a tip: Any woman that doesn't mind paying on date #1 after YOU ask her out BEWARE. This is the woman you'll never be able to get rid of, or have trouble breaking it off easily and gently with. She'll put up with anything. She's easy, a pushover, and impressing her will cost £0.00. She'll do anything to get and keep a man even if it means paying when HE asked HER out. May seem great to you at first, do anything in the bedroom. Just to please. Will pay for anything. Just to please. You'll stand her up, she'll get mad then forgive you. Just to please. She may even pay the hotel and airfare for a romantic getaway. Just to please. But come date #3 she's talking all kinds of marriage and babies and gets a little extra and obsessive that you cannot get rid of this overly attached, compulsive and very needy woman. Don't say I didn't warn you.

It seems men only want to flaunt their money to impress a woman, but only when they are spending on themselves.

"Look at my ride."
"Look at my rims."
"Look at my house."
"Look at my suits and fancy clothes."
"Look bitch you're paying for what you ate, and I'm paying for mine. We'll split the tax and the tip though…JUST to be fair!"

I EXPECT a man to pay when a mans ASKS ME OUT. I DO NOT expect him to pay all the time because at some point there will be instances where I may want to put my hand in my pocket or situations where we will split it 50/50. Out at the movies one pays for the tickets the other the popcorn and snacks, you get to a point where it's not always an issue or a second thought.

I've dated black British and I've dated black Americans and so have my friends. And the winners are...

Sorry Brit brothas but American men [not all, but A LOT from what I encounter] are on another level ENTIRELY!

Buying something as simple as a drink in a bar is nothing to them. NOTHING! And they don't expect anything from it either. I find this is a struggle for a lot of British brothas, myself and my friends really do, we don't moan about it because after this long we know what to expect. In the UK no attention. Go to the US too much attention.

A hoard of us went to Dallas in May of this year for my friends wedding and we all said the same thing "What is up with these men over here? You don't even have to open up your mouth for them to know you're British and the attention is over whelming." And whether romantically interested or not, I've kept in touch with a couple of them. It seems after the same encounter with a brotha over here if they don't get what they want they aren't interested in getting to you know you on the friendship level at all. What happened to kicking it as friends even if you don't get that date you hoped for? Nothing wrong with the occasional meet-up or e-mail every now and then and who knows, it still may lead to something down the line.

"It's sad you have to fly 5,000 miles just to be appreciated."That's what I said and it's true. We're not teenagers, we are grown women and can see that the distinct contrast in the initial first approach rapport between the US and UK men is astounding. Typical experience in a bar would be.

US Men "Hey how are you? My name is ______. And you are? Nice to meet you _____. So what are you having?"
UK Men "Yeah yeah what you sayin? So what, can a bruvva get your number or what?"

Trying to convince a US brotha "it's OK, tonight it's on me" is like going at it with Mike Tyson in the ring. I remember my friend [a Brit married to a Texan] said letting him pay was something that took a lot of getting used to because she never really had to do it on that level before. I guess as far as Mr Texas was concerned she was his Queen and he was going to treat her as such. He got her, she let him and they are happily married. I love it!!!

It seems that men want to be the breadwinners. Take care of the family brood. Earn the most money and take care of his, but want to moan about paying for dinner/date and the first one at that? If I'm going to date you, I'm not expecting the earth. In fact it doesn't even have to be expensive YOU HEARD OF A PICNIC BRUH? Or an afternoon/interactive date like bowling, a museum, art gallery or ice skating [so when she falls you can catch her *wink wink*] just showing that you made the effort for a woman is enough.
If paying for dinner/cinema is a stretch for you [especially after you asking me out] then I'm sorry no more dates for me. Men woo the women, not the other way around. You see what you like, you ask, we accept, you woo, we respond in kind. Men are the hunters and the chasers by nature. Know your role and play it. Don't switch when money is involved and trying to get all 'equality and 'feminist like' talking about women in 2008 should be such and such…Oh really? So you won't have a problem with me earning more than you then? Be careful what cards you play fellas! Especially when it comes to the roles you think women should be adapting in the 21st century.

Back on topic: When it's a more relaxed and 'serious' situation then little by little the tables will turn. I'm not an ungrateful or unappreciative woman, I can pay and I can buy gifts and have no problem in doing so.

So in response to John Boy's comment and to the many other men that feel the same way:
*If you do all of the asking out and it's bothering you to pay, then stop asking women out, wait until they ask you. You'll be waiting a long time though.

*If you do that much asking out and a lot of paying on first dates, expect to. If YOU asked HER out.

*You can save yourself some money AND time, and tell her straight up when you ask her out that you'll be going Dutch. After that the chances are you'll not pay a penny because she'll end up declining the date.

*If she doesn't mind going Dutch or even paying in full then heed my warning above.

*Don't be surprised on the first date after ASKING HER out that she gets vex when she has to reach in her pocket. To all of her friends you're just another cheap n*****. You still may get laid as a result regardless because there are some women out there who are just like that.

*If you still don't get the 'frustration' from women about being asked out then expecting to pay after this then…….there's nothing more myself or anybody can actually say on this topic.

*If money is a problem, get her details and GET TO KNOW HER before payday, then suggest a date later on. By then you may decide she not dating material and strictly a new name for the friends category in your phone book or somebody who you'll have no problem shelling out on a meal for, because she seems worth it.

In the world of love and dating…a lot of Divalicious good luck to one and all.


  1. "Look bitch you're paying for what you ate, and I'm paying for mine. We'll split the tax and the tip though…JUST to be fair". Hahaha. Classic. Onward...

    Let's get Rims Boy out of the way. He wasn't invited. Wanna be the main breadwinner? Have issues about your woman getting paid more? Think the rims maketh the man? Shaddup and pay. I'll sign the document that lets these mans know.

    "To do so implies that you are aware of that other's persons financial situation". You have a point here. I'm surprised I haven't heard it before. How comes more women aren't using this one? Cast iron. Even if, in the world of cinema and dinner, it seems like the kind of slippery technicality Johnny Cochran would be at home wielding. This is what it leaves us with: You ask out. You pay out. Simple. In our world that translates to: Men ask out. Men pay out. Simple. It's not fair. If I was less of a man, I might have a good cry about it.

    There are fundamental differences between men and women. Beyond the physically obvious, it isn't all that certain what these fundamental differences are. That's why having roles can be such a problem. The past tells us that roles that lead to inequality should be regarded with suspicion. While we're on the subject of roles. Chasers by nature? Can I apply for a new role, please? This chasing business is no walk in the park and I have trouble interpreting the 'chase me' signals. Where do I get an application form?

    There needen't be any fear that wooing will be lost in any role amendments. Plenty of guys enjoy indulging in kung-woo. I'm sure any half decent wooist knows that paying for a date hasn't got anything to do with the true art of woo. Any fool (hey, Rims Boy can I borrow you for a moment?) can pay for a date. That's amateur league woo-ery.

    p.s. Seeing as doesn't-mind-paying-girl-on-date#1 isn't here to defend herself I'll say this. There's only ever been one first date where I didn't pay the whole wack. The lady insisted on paying half and wouldn't have it any other way. She was no pushover or on some "she's talking all kinds of marriage and babies" (Top line by the way) talk.

  2. **this is a long one....you ready??**

    "How comes more women aren't using this one?"
    Not all women are cut from the same cloth. That's probably why.

    "Chasers by nature? Can I apply for a new role, please? This chasing business is no walk in the park and I have trouble interpreting the 'chase me' signals."
    Yes men are the hunters and the gatherers. Since the days of cave men and Adam & Eve roles were assumed, and by tradition to this day seem to have pretty much stuck. Back then men went out and got the food, today they pay for the food. Same thing, different times.

    Men have trouble interpreting the 'chase me' signals? Trust me there are a lot of signals that some women don't understand from men when it comes to dating. And the fundamental differences between men and women pretty much have been narrowed down to a fine art. I think the author John Gray of the infamous 'Men Are from Mars, Women Are From Venus' fame pretty much has it down pat. The knowledge about the sexes and the battles between the two are out there, it's just people want to act 'brand new' like there is some fine art as to why he or she are they way they are and act the way they do. The male and female psyche have been studied for years and years. People are privy to the information but they choose to act like it's a big mystery. It's not! Well not to me anyway.

    As for the 'woo factor', everything you do from the approach to a proposal is all part and parcel of wooing, and first dates alone are the things most memorable amongst women who are now married to those men. Ask a woman she can probably remember what she wore. What perfume she had on. What he had on. What music was playing in the background. What they had to eat. HELL, sista girl probably still has the receipt from the meal. I remember the calendar dates, what I wore, what my hair was like when I met pretty much every man I dated/was involved with or interested in. From the beginning it's all sentimental to a woman so regardless of what you think the woo began when you approached her and she still expects it post the "I do's." As a man you're JUST paying for dinner and may not seem like a big thing. You're just taking a woman out on a date, no biggie. To a woman she's being wooed to a degree whether big or small and every 'woo factor' scores or loses you points. Pay for dinner [plus], show up late [subtract that with a quickness], he remembered my birthday without any prompting [double plus points], he didn't call me when he said he would post date [subtract, subtract, subtract]. And whether it's a City Trader or 'my man from round the way' aka Rims Boy it's irrelevant, as it's not indicative of class. The rims statement was used solely as an example of an item men have no problem in paying for FOR THEMSELVES.

    As for the 50% paying sista I'll say this, she WAS a pushover, regardless if she appeared strong and held her own financially and the rest, doesn't matter what she earned, what job she held or how eloquently she spoke. There are times to let a man be a [paying] man. **are you shaking your head now in disagreement? Let me tell you from a WOMAN'S point of view** The most common pushovers are like the ones mentioned. I'm sorry sista girl is INSISTING she pays half *inserts screw face here*, she obviously doesn't know how to play her role in certain situations [that is if YOU did ask her out] and as for you letting her pay her share...I'll say this, had it been my friend on the date insisting after having been asked out and he let her pay, I'd tell her don't even bother with a second date. Don't even. You start with as a means to go on. **sings** "If I were a boy..." I saw a woman approached her, really liked her to the point of I wanted to see her again I AM INSISTING HEAVILY that I am paying to the point of telling the waiter "under no circumstances take any money from her." I know first impressions count and many thereafter. I'm on a mission and I need to show her I have no problem in paying and I think she's worth it 110% [that includes the MF'ing tip and tax]. If you start out with 50% you're going to continue to expect and receive the same 50% in other aspects down the line if you get serious. And if I was a guy [a 50 percenter] I'd be running with that all day. Why not? From the get-go I've already proved I don't need to work to full capacity, so let me keep-on keepin' on. You've [as a woman] already shown how much you're worth and he's not willing to go all out on day one, then please don't expect much more from a brotha. But there's something else I forgot to mention with women especially in this country I've noticed, the aim to be on par with men on every level from earning potential, promiscuity and drinking is astounding and this includes chipping in for dinner, like it's a sign of weakness to let the man pay in full. Or you have other women who secretly feel sorry for their date knowing he isn't earning as much as them [I've been so guilty of this] and therefore also feel the need to pay. Still makes her a pushover though, myself [the old self] included. She may not have been talking about the babies, but I bet after finding out your last name, in her head she attached it to her first name to see what it would sound like and maybe thought about hyphenating it also. I've just divulged one of a woman's biggest secret. Ask them and they'll deny it, but it's true. Men think about the now. Women are years ahead. By the end of the starter she'd probably planned the song list for the church wedding [OK that last one was soooooooo tongue in cheek]!!

    Take no offence John Boy. I'm merely giving you my honest no bullshit-lived from experience-and my friends experience-take on it.

  3. As a Brit living in the U.S i understand both sides very well. I remember when i lived in England and was so broke that i had to go dutch with my date which was a nice assist. Now also being a Nigerian i know that will never happen and because of this i dont remember dating any Nigerians back then and i dated white girls but since i moved to the U.S in 1992 and moving to the Southern part of the Country it was a No No trying to go dutch. They will flat out curse you out. I remember there was atime i had a longterm girlfriend and there were times when she will suggest we go out knowing i didnt have any money but will slide the money under the table to me so i can pay because according to southern culture the man should always pay. I didnt quite agree with her on that but i obliged. I thank my stars that i moved to the U.S and can afford to go out on a date without hurting my wallet or credit card compared to the U.K which i believe the food is not even worth the hassle.
    Nowadays i always pay for the first couple of dates but if a lady suggests we go out to eat i expect her to foot the bill. If she doesnt pay then i will not honor her request anymore. I hate the fact that down south all women(especially blacks)can think of on a date is to go eat and thats why nearly the whole country is obese. i get sick and tired of going to traditional restaurants to go eat cos it can be very boring. I would prefer we go to Coffee shops or a bookshop or just something different from sitting down and eating but most of the people i run into are unidimenstional and all they can think of is going to a restaurant. I prefer to go to fusion type restaurants or hidden treasures and hate the franchises but this is the default for most sistas so they earn a doggie bag and brag to their friends about where they went to eat.

  4. Whoa. 50% chick better man up and defend herself. After all she can't expect 100% defence, right?

    John Gray? Phoning a friend and shit eh? Guess I'll have to read the book and get back to you.

    Adam and Eve? You can always rely on them for a quality legacy.

    Take offence? Nah. Straight, no chaser is how we roll.

    Fashogi. She passed the money under the table? Heh heh. That's a classic.

  5. American men act both ways too (e.g. re: manners). Don't be fooled! In the U.S, England, and everywhere else there are guys that actually behave like gentlemen and other guys who need to.


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